Sniper efi troubleshooting

Sniper efi troubleshooting DEFAULT

Ask Away! with Jeff Smith: When Troubleshooting Fuel Systems, Keep it Simple

Jeff Smith: Instead of the usual question from a reader, I thought the following scenario that a friend and I recently suffered through might be of help to car guys working on their machines.

My friend (who shall remain nameless because this could happen to anybody) recently ran into a series of drivability problems on a car he had just completed from the ground up.

Over the course of several phone calls discussing this issue, he eventually worked out the solution but it demanded a more than a couple of weeks of his time and was very frustrating. So I thought that a run-through of what we both learned would be helpful to others who might be caught in a similar situation.

These issues began when my buddy fired up the car and drove it for the first of many, many test drives. The engine was a late model LS engine with EFI controlled by a popular and reliable aftermarket EFI system.

At first, the car ran great. But then, very quickly the car stalled and appeared to be out of fuel. They towed the car back to his shop to discover that the tank still had plenty of fuel. They suspected the EFI system was having some issues but later identified the in-tank fuel pump as the culprit because fuel pressure was dropping to near zero—but only at certain times.

They drained the fuel and removed the tank and replaced the fuel pump with a slightly higher capacity pump.

Once everything was re-assembled, they took the car back out for another test drive only to have the same issue crop up again. What made it even more frustrating was that if the car was allowed to sit for about a half hour or so and cool down, the engine would restart and run fine for about 10 minutes before eventually stumbling and quitting again.

At first, they suspected all kinds of heat-related issues such as vapor lock or perhaps that the inlet tube to the pump was somehow collapsing. The eventual solution came, as it sometimes does, completely by accident. After the engine died again out on the road, they were near a gas station and dead-stick landed at a gas station just to get the car off the road. My buddy decided to add fuel just to be safe and was greeted by a giant whoosh of air when he removed the gas cap.

When he called me to report what had happened, it was immediately obvious to both of us that the tank was not vented. I asked him why he had not vented the tank. His response was that he thought he had by virtue of choosing what he thought was a vented gas cap. The reality was he had instead chosen a screw-on cap for a late model car—as he called it—“a clicker type cap”. These are used for late model cars that employ a sealed fuel system and are not vented.

The solution was easy enough. I only half in jest suggested drilling a half-inch hole through the middle of the cap would solve the problem. He elected instead to find a different cap but also installed a separate vent in the tank to make sure the tank did not suffer from this in the future.

This wasn’t the end of his troubles however. After completing the vent solution, he again ran into trouble with a series of leaking fuel injectors due to debris clogging the injectors. Over the course of several more conversations, I remember asking if he had installed a new fuel filter in the line in between the in-tank fuel pump and the injectors. He had done this but wasn’t exactly sure which filter he had installed. I offered that this is where it can be easy to make a mistake since for gasoline there are two different filter elements that externally appear exactly the same.

All the high performance fuel pump companies like Aeromotive, Holley, Walbro, FUELAB, and others insist that the inlet side of the pump be filtered with a 100 micron filter while downstream, after the pump that a much smaller, more restrictive 10 micron filter be used. A micron is one millionth of a meter—or in decimal form is equal to 0.000039-inch. So a 100 micron filter will allow 10 times larger debris or dirt to flow past compared to a 10 micron filter.

The 100-micron filter is designed to prevent large debris from disabling the fuel pump but the finer, 10-micron filter is designed to filter out dirt or material that might clog up the much smaller flow orifices in the fuel injectors.

The best and only way to tell these filters apart is to look on the end of the filter cap for a marking that should say either 10 or 100. My buddy wasn’t paying attention and installed the 100-micron filter in the downstream portion of the system. He did this because, in his words, “100 is better than 10.” This might be the case in terms of dollars and doughnuts but for filtering the fuel system to minimize the size of the junk that might find its way to the fuel injectors, a 10-micron filter is the way to go.

Once he installed a 10-micron filter in the fuel system between the fuel pump and the injectors, this solved the problem of the injectors becoming dirty and leaking into the engine. It was a long and arduous process to get all of these problems sorted out and looking back at all of the potential problems that we thought might have been the cause, it turned out that, at least in many cases, the simpler solutions turned out to be the best.

Through hard-learned lessons we’ve learned that when diagnosing problems its best to attack the simplest solutions first.

There’s nothing like deciding that the fuel pump needs replacing only to discover that the fuel level indicator was really at fault and the tank was empty of fuel. This happened on a different car, but the result was much the same. Some lessons are learned much quicker than others.

Tags: Ask Away, Jeff Smith

Author: Jeff Smith Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders.

Sours: https://www.onallcylinders.com/2019/01/11/ask-away-with-jeff-smith-when-troubleshooting-fuel-systems-keep-it-simple/

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  1. 03-10-2020, 03:47 PM#1
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    Sniper issues with idle and such.

    I have a BPE 347 sbf with the Sniper system. No timing control, just fuel. I have had a lot of trouble getting this thing stable and thought one of you Sniper gurus might be able to help. Initially, I had fuel pressure issues and Holley sent a replacement regulator which worked fine and got pressures down to ~62psi. I have had idle speed problems continually since then. When motor is cold (50* or so), I turn key on, wait for prime and then it fires right up and goes to a very high idle of ~2400. After a minute or so it drops a bit to 1500 and when it finally settles out it is at 1000-1100. The hand held is set to an idle speed of 825 with the AOD transmission. I have done the IAC adjustment a dozen time and every time, it is different from one day to the next. Holley had me tape over the IAC hole in the top of the throttle body and adjust it again using their procedure and it makes no difference. Cannot get it to repeat from day to day. I called them again today and they are wondering if I have a problem with the temp sending unit. Since day one, this motor has had it temp rise in record fashion from dead cold to 160-170* in a matter of a few minutes, literally. I checked with Josh at BPE and he reminded me its a high performance motor that will get warm faster. BTW, ignition is set to 34* max at 3500RPM per BPE direction. The motor has ~350 miles on it and seems to perform well except for the idle problems. It still shows learning in progress whatever that means at this point I am unsure.

    I am going to swap the location of the temp sensors (Sniper and original dash gauge sensor) to see if that matters and get back to Holley. Hopefully, someone has an idea how to proceed. I want this thing ready for the cruise in next month and need it to be right before I drive it 400+ miles. Ideas?
    thx,
    Tom

  2. 03-10-2020, 04:28 PM#2
    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    Hey Tom
    Not a Sniper expert but I do have a Sniper on a non BPE 347.

    Where is the location of your Sniper Temp sensor, in the manifold? (should not be at the radiator) And I assume the idle settings that you played around with were all with the engine temp above 160 (as per the idle setting instructions in the manual)

    Have you tried the Holley Sniper Forum? There are a couple of senior people there that are a tremendous help.
    The normal process of debugging on that forum is for you to turn logging on at the Sniper, capture a log file of the problem sequence, take the SD card out of the sniper display and take it to your PC. The log and config files can then be downloaded to the forum for the experts to have a look-see. There is also free Sniper Configuration software for your PC that allows you to view the files (and do a lot more configuration than possible through the handheld that connects to the Sniper).

    Steve
    Gen 1 '33 Hot Rod #1104
    347 with Holley Sniper & Hyperspark, TKO600, IRS, 245/40R18 & 315/30R18, DRL, Digital Guard Dog keyless Ignition

  3. 03-10-2020, 04:56 PM#3
    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    By the way, I found a lot of good information in the manual for the PC Tuning and configuration Software. Even if you don't want to use the software, it would be a good idea to download the manual. There is an idle section starting on page 23. Look here https://www.holley.com/support/resou...Fuel_Injection to download the Sniper EFI Software Help File
    Gen 1 '33 Hot Rod #1104
    347 with Holley Sniper & Hyperspark, TKO600, IRS, 245/40R18 & 315/30R18, DRL, Digital Guard Dog keyless Ignition

  4. 03-10-2020, 07:07 PM#4
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    Thank you, Steve. I have the help file on my tablet now. I've got to admit, I'm not all that impressed with the Sniper from a trouble shooting viewpoint. Holley is way to difficult to get on the phone which surprises me a bunch. I'll wait til the morning and start a data log running so I can be prepared to provide it if necessary.

    Following up on your first response, my sniper sensor is in the manifold between dist. and throttle body. The dash gauge sensor is in top of t-stat. Both read closely from cold to normal running temp of 187~. Does yours get up to 160 in less that 2 minutes? Thanks for the help.

  5. 03-10-2020, 07:37 PM#5
    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    I agree on the troubleshooting. Going in I had bought the koolaid that these self learning EFI systems were plug and play but have now come to grips with the fact that to get the best out of them they actually need some human tuning (I have yet to find a local expert for that).

    Mine takes significantly longer than yours to get up to that temp but I've never timed it. My engine is a bit more aggressive than the BPE one - probably around 450hp with higher compression, AFR heads and a trickflow stage 2 roller cam. Not sure I buy into the explanation that you were given.

    If you get a chance to take a look at the table that defines idle versus temperature, that's where I'd start if you've followed the idle setting procedure to the letter...
    Gen 1 '33 Hot Rod #1104
    347 with Holley Sniper & Hyperspark, TKO600, IRS, 245/40R18 & 315/30R18, DRL, Digital Guard Dog keyless Ignition

  6. 03-10-2020, 08:34 PM#6
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    Thanks Steve. I will time it from cold to 170 tomorrow. Also, looked at the idle speed curve and if seems OK to me. Just need the darn thing to follow the curve. Thanks to you I am on the hunt again. Simple is never simple in this field... take care. Tom

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  8. 03-10-2020, 09:04 PM#7
    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    You need to do the IAC setup procedure if you havent already
    FFR 1879, Blown DSS 306,REDLINE management, VeryCoolParts Tuned 460RWHP

    FFR 818S, The Flash, Chassis #5, 2.0L, LSD, Electromotive TEC-S, VCP Tuned, 278RWHP 265 RWTQ

    FFR 6651, Green Lantern, 408W Crate, Hellion 66mm Turbo, JGS Waste gate / Blowoff valve, Tec-GT management, VCP Tuned, 575 RWHP, 690 RWTQ

    FFR 8335, Black Mamba, 289 FIA CSX 2001 tribute car, 347, 48 IDA webers, VCP Tuned, 311 RWHP 386 RWTQ, 3-link, Trigo's

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  9. 03-10-2020, 09:36 PM#8
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    Thanks for the suggestion but I've been there and done that a dozen times. Issue is that it does not stay. I can get it to 0 tps and 3-5% iac, save it all and tomorrow it's different. Holley had me tape over iac hole in the top of the throttle body, turn up idle screw 1/2 turn and then adjust until idle is 500 below initial 1/2 turn generated rpm.
    Last edited by Brave Salmon; 03-10-2020 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Spelling

  10. 03-10-2020, 10:47 PM#9
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    not sure ,,, I missed the fact that you had already done the IAC - mine dropped right in and idled fine on 2 cars. Odd that IAC settings are not staying.. i am not sure the sensor would matter as that won't fix the IAC not remembering the setting... are you hooked directly to the battery both ground and power on the main feed wires?
    FFR 1879, Blown DSS 306,REDLINE management, VeryCoolParts Tuned 460RWHP

    FFR 818S, The Flash, Chassis #5, 2.0L, LSD, Electromotive TEC-S, VCP Tuned, 278RWHP 265 RWTQ

    FFR 6651, Green Lantern, 408W Crate, Hellion 66mm Turbo, JGS Waste gate / Blowoff valve, Tec-GT management, VCP Tuned, 575 RWHP, 690 RWTQ

    FFR 8335, Black Mamba, 289 FIA CSX 2001 tribute car, 347, 48 IDA webers, VCP Tuned, 311 RWHP 386 RWTQ, 3-link, Trigo's

    FFR 0004, Gen 3 , Hawk Coupe, Coyote twin turbo, 683 RWHP 559 RWTQ, IRS, VCP Tuned. "not too shabby"

    US ARMY Maintenance Test Pilot (CW4 Retired)

  11. 03-12-2020, 12:11 PM#10
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  12. 03-13-2020, 10:59 PM#11
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    Tom, how's it going with your idle problem? any progress?

    Steve
    Gen 1 '33 Hot Rod #1104
    347 with Holley Sniper & Hyperspark, TKO600, IRS, 245/40R18 & 315/30R18, DRL, Digital Guard Dog keyless Ignition

  13. 03-13-2020, 11:06 PM#12
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    Well, as everyone can understand, the damn thing is working fine two days in a row. I guess the threat of a data log dump was enough to get Mr. Sniper to work better. No sense uploading a dump that will only show it ids working properly but I will start a log each time I start it for a few more days. Thanks for all the assistance.

    Hvacman, no sign of a vacuum leak. It pulling a good 16"hg at idle and I sprayed all the gasketed joints on the manifold with ether. No change in rpm so that's fine.

    thx

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Sniper EFI Timing Issues#2682149
07/28/1909:38 PM07/28/1909:38 PM
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Been having a hell of a time getting my car to run after swapping in a Holley Hyperspark distributor and enabling timing control in the ECU. If I put the motor on TDC and then phase the distributor with the clear plastic cap it puts the rotor past #1. Timing is way over advanced. Can't turn the distributor back because it eventually bumps into the head . Even if it didn't hit the head this negates using the clear cap.

Motor was running fine with verified timing before on an MSD Pro Billet. Reason I decided to replace the MSD is to get advance at cruise.

What the hell am I doing wrong? shruggy

EDIT: Using an MSD 6AL ignition box with this setup and not the Holley, if that matters...

Last edited by MarkM; 07/28/1910:23 PM.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682163
07/28/1910:28 PM07/28/1910:28 PM
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If the only problem is hitting the head.

Rotate the distributor away from the head 22.5 degress. That is 1 tower over. Then move the wires back over 1 position.



69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: Magnum] #2682243
07/29/1908:35 AM07/29/1908:35 AM
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Probably wouldn't hurt to verify the oil pump drive is properly indexed.


Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: Sniper] #2682273
07/29/1909:52 AM07/29/1909:52 AM
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I moved the wires over one plug on the cap and have enough adjustment to keep it running, but I can't sync the computer to the balancer so that both show the same timing. A light shows the idle being 15 degrees and the handheld shows -8. Been through the directions a couple of times now. Disabled 'Idle Spark Control' to turn off it self adjusting the timing and worked from there....no dice...on hold with Holley right now.

Would the distributor drive gear clocking even matter if I've gotten to this point? I don't think it was a problem before with the MSD Pro Billet since it was tall enough to clear the head and had enough adjustment.



1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682372
07/29/1902:14 PM07/29/1902:14 PM
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I've got the timing lining up now. I should never have went down the rabbit hole of moving the distributor around. You can do that digitally by altering the reference angle on the handheld.

  • Lock distributor in place per directions using the clear molded cap
  • Start engine
  • Use a feature called static timing and set to 15 degrees
  • Hit balancer with a light, came back 49 degrees
  • Take the difference, 32 degrees and add it to the initial value of the reference angle of 57.5 for a total of 89.5
  • check timing at cruise RPM on the balancer against what the handheld says


I had already set my timing numbers on the handheld of 24 initial, 34 WOT, 42 cruise. Once I brought the RPM up the handheld read 42 and so did the balancer.

The installation instructions stop abruptly at step four assuming its all kosher without telling you what to do in the event those initial numbers don't line up. Wasted so much time today...

It runs now, but the ignition still seems choppy with a light miss. Something else to chase down....

Last edited by MarkM; 07/29/1902:35 PM.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682388
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Just took it out. There is a noticeable chop to the ignition now. I could hear it spark knocking when I put my foot into it too. Taking three degrees out and putting it down to 39 degrees didn't alleviate it much.

I'm just about ready to toss the Pro Billet back in the car.



1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682412
07/29/1904:00 PM07/29/1904:00 PM
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No experience with that system, but a couple q’s.......

What does the ecu use to reference “cruise” and “WOT”?

Can you watch the timing live on the hand held?

As I recall, your motor has a pretty short cam....... what’s the CR, and have you ever done a compression test?

“The way I’d want it to work is.......”
The “cruise” timing would only be for the times when the rpm was up a bit, and the manifold vacuum was quite high.
As soon as you started pushing on the throttle, timing should automatically start regarding........so that at anything less than say 6-8” vacuum you’re back to the WOT setting.
That 6-8” is just off the top of my head...... and that would be something that needed to be experimented with.
Basically, you’re trying to mimic a properly functioning vacuum advance.



68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, [email protected]
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682460
07/29/1905:41 PM07/29/1905:41 PM
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Just took it out. There is a noticeable chop to the ignition now. I could hear it spark knocking when I put my foot into it too. Taking three degrees out and putting it down to 39 degrees didn't alleviate it much.

I'm just about ready to toss the Pro Billet back in the car.




Did you make sure to turn off the static timing (15 degrees advance) mode before the drive?


BigBlockMopar.com

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: fast68plymouth] #2682474
07/29/1906:24 PM07/29/1906:24 PM
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No experience with that system, but a couple q’s.......

What does the ecu use to reference “cruise” and “WOT”?

Can you watch the timing live on the hand held?

As I recall, your motor has a pretty short cam....... what’s the CR, and have you ever done a compression test?

“The way I’d want it to work is.......”
The “cruise” timing would only be for the times when the rpm was up a bit, and the manifold vacuum was quite high.
As soon as you started pushing on the throttle, timing should automatically start regarding........so that at anything less than say 6-8” vacuum you’re back to the WOT setting.
That 6-8” is just off the top of my head...... and that would be something that needed to be experimented with.
Basically, you’re trying to mimic a properly functioning vacuum advance.



Looking at the spark map it seems to use reading from the MAP sensor to make that determination.

Motor has a [email protected]" roller cam in it with a 10.5:1 static compression. I took a compression reading on #1 a while back just for the hell of it and it came back at 190 PSI. I was just screwing around and that was only #1 with all the other plugs in and the engine cold.

Never had any spark knock issues with the old setup set at 24 degrees initial with 34 total all in.

I'll attach a screenshot of the spark map that was auto generated by the ECU ---- sorry it's so hard to read, the forum keeps resizing it and knocking the quality down.

sparkmap2.png

Last edited by MarkM; 07/29/1906:32 PM.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: BigBlockMopar] #2682477
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Just took it out. There is a noticeable chop to the ignition now. I could hear it spark knocking when I put my foot into it too. Taking three degrees out and putting it down to 39 degrees didn't alleviate it much.

I'm just about ready to toss the Pro Billet back in the car.




Did you make sure to turn off the static timing (15 degrees advance) mode before the drive?


Yeah, it disables that setting as soon as you leave the screen. I did all my test runs on the sensor monitor screen.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682489
07/29/1907:09 PM07/29/1907:09 PM
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Oregon

Whoa, that timing table is not what you want at all. Looks like zero timing at idle then it jumps to 39 degrees for cruise? You do not want to run the engine with that timing table.

For an engine like yours I'd think you would want to start with a typical curve of 18 at idle, 34 at WOT and maybe 40 at cruise. You fill in those areas and then smooth out between the three areas so the timing changes gradually.

I don't think you should change the reference angle either. That is bad ju ju to mess with the reference angle. The way I set those things up is to put the engine at 35 degrees BTDC. Install the distributor with the rotor pointed at #1. Adjust the oil pump shaft as necessary to allow the rotor to point directly at the #1 tower. Install the cap, double check plug wire order and then fire up the engine. Once the engine is running you enable static timing on the handheld. Set it to something like 25 degrees and then double check with the timing light. If the damper doesn't read 25 degrees then you rotate the distributor a small amount to get it to line up. You should not have to rotate if more than a few degrees if you had the rotor pointed at #1 when the crank was 35 BTDC.

The reference angle should be what Holley wants it. You don't change that.


Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682492
07/29/1907:13 PM07/29/1907:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 98
Missouri

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Missouri

I put a Sniper on my 440 this winter. I'm using the stock Mopar distributor that I locked out and disconnected the vacuum to trigger the ecu. I had a couple of guys tell me that it would be difficult to make it work. I have it working very well after chasing down some emi issues. Your image of your spark table is what the software generates and it isn't very drivable. Go the Holley support forums and check out the Sniper forum. They have a couple of threads about creating a good spark table. Essentially, they copy a table from a different version of software and paste it into the Sniper software. I did that and modified it to mimic what the mechanical and vacuum advance curve I was running before. If you graph what you have, you will see sharp changes at the edges of the three areas. What I have now has a smooth curve in the transitions.

I notice you said you have wot maxed out at 34*. I'm running 38* wot and cruise will go as high as 49* and I haven't had any detonation issues, but I'm running about 9.6 to 1 cr.

randavis



74 Challenger, bought it new. In 1978 I replaced the original 318 with a 446 and 727. Mild cam, Jardine headers, and Holley Sniper EFI.
New engine in the works! 511" RB, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Eagle rotating assy, Comp hyd roller cam, Doug's 2" headers.

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682564
07/29/1911:21 PM07/29/1911:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Oregon

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You need to smooth out the timing table. The engine is not going to like those abrupt steps in the timing. The engine will shudder back and forth across those big steps. You can either manually smooth the table or just hit the smooth button a few times.


Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682565
07/29/1911:24 PM07/29/1911:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Oregon

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Are you programming with the handheld? If so you have to really watch the inputs. The handheld has a difficult time with finger commands and sometimes the input doesn't get taken. Use the stylus rather than your finger and you might have better results. Just be super careful when programming with the handheld because you can end up with really weird results due to miscommunication. You should probably buy the cable and hook up with a laptop if you're going to really tune a Sniper.

The other way to tune with a laptop is to just pop the SD card out of the handheld and put it into your desktop computer. Then you can edit the tune file with your desktop computer. Once you have it edited how you want you pop the SD carb back into the handheld and upload the new tune to your Sniper.


Last edited by AndyF; 07/29/1911:25 PM.

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682672
07/30/1911:25 AM07/30/1911:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
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CT
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Your low RPM map looks kind of backwards. You have 32* of timing at 100 KPA (WOT) off idle, but 22* at idle. Either you want less than 32* at 100 KPA, or your engine wants more than 32* at idle, or something in between.

The numbers should get lower as you go from 0 KPA up to 100 KPA.

I would start the advance curve at 1250, or even 1000 if you idle lower than 1000.


Last edited by GTX MATT; 07/30/1911:26 AM.


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street

Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: MarkZ] #2682688
07/30/1912:20 PM07/30/1912:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Oregon

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I think you need to smooth that curve out more. I'm not sure how well you can smooth things with the handheld but with the laptop you can select an area with the mouse and then smooth it out. I wouldn't run a curve like that in an engine since the timing is jumping 3 degrees in 50 rpm. I think that would be hard on the engine to have the timing jump around like that although the load is light in that area so it might not matter too much.


Re: Sniper EFI Timing Issues [Re: BigBlockMopar] #2682756
07/30/1904:31 PM07/30/1904:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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The Netherlands
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And also:

kPa = Engine vacuum in inches 0 = 29.5 5 = 28.1 10 = 26.6 15 = 25.1 20 = 23.6 25 = 22.1 30 = 20.7 Idle 35 = 19.2 " 40 = 17.7 " 45 = 16.2 Cruise 50 = 14.8 " 55 = 13.3 " 60 = 11.8 Acceleration 65 = 10.3 " 70 = 8.9 " 75 = 7.4 Firm acceleration 80 = 5.9 " 85 = 4.4 " 90 = 3.0 Heavy acceleration 95 = 1.5 (WOT) 100 = 0.0 (WOT)


BigBlockMopar.com


Moderated by  Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, McLovin, moparts, not_a_charger, tboomer 


Sours: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2682477/sniper-efi-timing-issues.html
Fixing Holley Sniper Issues Caused By Electrical Interference, EMI and RFI Tips V8 Speed Shop

Price Point: $$$. These aren't generic newsletters either but instead personalized emails. Ok, we have enough Sniper systems out there that I thought it would be a good idea to create a posting on challenges that might arise during installation. If you hear the sound I describe then you should also confirm that the shaft is actually moving. Don’t buy your EFI anywhere else. Copyright © 2017 Cyberspace Automotive Performance, Inc. All Rights Reserved. I am also planning to get the Holley distributor and Sniper fuel tank. Be sure you … I don't quite see why it is pulling -50% at idle before you rev it. Troubleshooting High Idle Conditions in the Sniper EFI System, How to Troubleshoot RFI/EMI in Sniper EFI Systems. At this point, If you click "Save" you should hear the IAC respond, and when you look down into the IAC opening you should see the end of the plunger protruding about 3/8-inch into the IAC opening, fully blocking the air flow. Considering buying a Holley Sniper EFI system and Holley distributor. What could go wrong with an IAC? Fast shipping, great tech support. Capability Range: Professional But on the Sniper EFI System you can actually test this a little bit more precisely using the handheld touchscreen controller and these steps: Note:  This process will involve you changing the IAC parked position for testing purposes. Let's start by giving a simple introduction to how the IAC works. You can do that by looking down into the IAC opening with a flashlight while having someone key the system on. My Bronco with Holley Sniper EFI was running poorly. ... and noticed the O2 sensor reading, AFR, was steady climbing, and actually topped out … I reprogramed the Sniper several times. As the plunger is withdrawn, it moves further and further away from this passage and allows more and more air through. Subscribe to the Chris's EFI System Pro Mailing List! Jump on board now! Bolt-on carburetor style EFI for your classic car or truck. It does not provide any feedback to the ECU on its position. The purpose of this instruction is to help you confirm that your IAC is working correctly. Watch below as Jeremy talks you through getting your idle absolutely dialed in on your Sniper EFI equipped vehicle. Full product line and accessories at excellent pricing. You can unlock the sophisticated features inside the Sniper by merely popping the SD card out of the hand-held and plugging it into a laptop or desktop computer. The fuel injected throttle body is hunting at idle uncontrollably. The idle air control valve is a valve that adjusts air to create idle stability. First, In high-mileage vehicles the shaft can become jammed up due to a build-up of oil and debris. Replacement Idle Air Control (IAC) Motor for Sniper EFI TBI Systems, Sniper 90/92/102mm Throttle Bodies, Terminator TBI, Avenger 4bbl TBI, HP 4bbl TBI, Commander 950 & Digital Pro-Jection Systems. That work continues today through Holley’s market-leading EFI products as well as through Holley’s family of best-in-industry brands. 9 3.5” Touch Screen Controller The end of the plunger is flush with opening into the IAC passge when the IAC is somewhere around 75% on the unit I used for this article, but that's not to say that your IAC is going to be exactly the same. great information. Those are the pulses that send the shaft out to the zero position and then back to the parked position for that temperature. Your IAC is sitting at 20% at idle, so I'd adjust the idle screw to achieve the 5-10% IAC Position at idle. How to Set IAC Correctly Holley Sniper EFI The whole trick here is to put a strong piece of tape over the IAC hole so no air can be sucked in by the IAC, or idle air control valve. It is essentially a very simple linear actuator that moves a shaft in and out based on a series of pulses to a pair of coils. The Sniper EFI system looks at the closed-loop fuel compensation required to reach your target AFR. One of the signs of a vehicle with a rough idle is a faulty Idle Air Control (IAC) Motor. and bolts. Pink Wire must be attached to a 12V+ switched source that has voltage during cranking and run positions of … If you are so inclined, you can perform mouth-to-IAC resuscitation and no air should be able to pass. Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. Price Point: $$, Robust, feature-rich multi-port EFI systems offer easy plug-and-play late-model V8 engine swaps. Replacement Idle Air Control (IAC) Motor for Sniper EFI 85/90/92/102mm Throttle Bodies and 90/95/105mm Holley EFI Throttle Bodies. Qty: Add To Cart. your exhaust system is sound; if leaking it will suck in air which will cause the O2 sensor to think the system is running lean which will then tell the injection computer to richen up the mixture and that is a BIG problem. Please keep up the information. If you see that happening then the IAC is probably working. It’s economically priced so you can have all the benefits of EFI and still have money to finish or upgrade the rest of your ride! It is not a sensor, instead, it’s defined as an actuator since the ECU controls it. Removed all the unused wires from harness and wrapped all the remaining wires and harness with rfi shielding tape. I'm mostly kidding, but if you try this make sure nobody standing nearby has a camera and a social media account. Taking some time to fine-tune the idle on your Holley EFI system is one of the best ways to ensure you have a consistent and predictable powerplant under the hood of your hot rod. You should see the plunger come into view (as it closes the IAC airway) and then back partially or entirely out of view again. Idle Tuning is a very important part of tuning any EFI system, especially our self-learning units like Sniper or Terminator X EFI. When you key on, you will hear three distinct sounds:  The ECU initializing the IAC, the fuel pump priming, and the injectors firing their prime shot. When he publishes a new article here in EFI Pro Hangout, When especially relevant new products are announced, When special offers or coupon codes are available. The purple vertical line shows the current coolant temperature reading. You should make a note of the position before you change it so you can return it to the current configuration or, alternatively, save a copy of your configuration so that you can upload it back after you complete the test. Trust Holley to offer replacement electronic sensors that meet and/or exceed OEM specifications for performance! If you happen to know the pin-out for your IAC then you can confirm this by testing the continuity across the two coils. Another coil (energized by a second pair of wires) moves the shaft out. On the end of this shaft is an angled plunger. This video shows you how to set the initial startup idle or if you want to reset your Holley Sniper EFI and reset the idle as well. My sniper EFI 2300 (2F engine 1976 FJ55) is having a lot of problems on cold engine stalling out, self tuning has seemed to make it worse (than the default config) I was wondering if anyone could be so kind to share their config file for their 2F engine, (or something similar so I can have take a look at how others have approached this) It is essentially a very simple linear actuator that moves a shaft in and out based on a series of pulses to a pair of coils. It is not uncommon to question whether your Idle Air Control Motor (or IAC) on your EFI System is fully operational. Getting the throttle blades and IAC to work together will keep your fuel injected hot rod running smooth and predictable. Robust, feature-rich multi-port EFI systems offer easy plug-and-play late-model V8 engine swaps. Super helpful and knowledgeable. First, “Wow, does this deliver some amazing power!” Then, about the time they get The learn function will offset the base fuel table until the closed-loop compensation only requires minimal changes. You can move the IAC setting for the bordering temperatures up and down and watch the IAC plunger respond each time you hit "Save". Yes, it will talk to you--but not with words. See my instruction on How to Troubleshoot RFI/EMI in Sniper EFI Systems. The broad consensus has been that the Sniper is an amazingly straight-forward install and starts and tunes as expected. This is a great time to visually inspect the overall Sniper EFI install. Finally, if electromagnetic interference (EMI) is able to induce enough voltage on the control wires it could actually move the IAC shaft without the ECU being involved, which would cause the IAC to become "lost". Here you will see a graph of IAC park positions for various coolant temperatures. In our example, since the CTS says the engine is 88 degrees, the IAC Parked settings for the 80-degrees and 100-degree should be pulled down to zero. On the end of this shaft is an angled plunger. Found out that it was due to rfi/emi. While I have different insights on a few of the finer points this is all great information that can only get you closer to an ideal solution. car is a third gen 1990 Chevy Camaro with flowmaster mufflers. It does not reset itself to a known position when the Sniper EFI System is powered down. Power on the system but do not start the engine. It felt like it was flooding out at low speed, low RPM. It is not very loud and may, in fact, be masked by the fuel pump noise. Holley markets the Sniper and Super Sniper as a simple carb replacement fuel-injection system, but the Sniper contains some very complex, sophisticated EFI software. I bought a new holley sniper , dual sync dist., coil, and holley in tank fuel pump, When engine got hot it would go crazy. With the engine off, remove the air cleaner. HyperSpark Ignition for Sniper EFI; ... An idle air control valve or IAC is easily described as an electrically controlled vacuum leak. Great Company! This can often be cleared with a blast of aerosol carb cleaner. Easy and stress-free purchase from giving adv. EFI Systems based on Holley's world-class Dominator and HP ECU's. This may not solve your problem, but you can greatly simplify your Base Timing Table. carb and a mild performance camshaft. Put an end to cold start issues, hesitations, vapor lock, and flooding. Wish I had discovered this site before I purchased my unit. Its very common for the Holley Sniper to have coolant temperature sensor problems from the very beginning straight from the Holley factory. Sniper EFI Throttle Body 1 N/A Autolite 1100 Flange Sniper EFI Throttle Body Includes ECU, fuel injectors, Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor, Throttle Position Sensor (TPS), and an Idle Air Control Valve (IAC) 7 Flange Gasket 1 Gasket for mounting throttle body to intake manifold. This instruction is aimed primarily at the Sniper EFI System but you might find that you can adapt these concepts to any aftermarket EFI System. Price Point: $, Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. It is difficult to describe the sound but it sort of sounds like a plastic hair comb and pulled it across a hard edge. Emissions. This article was originally written to describe how to test the IAC functionality the Sniper EFI System. Very Quick Shipping & Help Guides Have Been Invaluable For Setting Up My Holley Sniper. Therefore, for the ECU to know exactly where the plunger is located relative to the IAC passage it must issue a series of pulses to completely close the IAC (the "zero" IAC position) before it can then use that as a reference from which it positions the plunger as desired. Tested my o2 sensors and determined the ECU on my Holley Sniper Efi is bad. There is another instruction that is dedicated to Troubleshooting High Idle Conditions in the Sniper EFI System. Perfect for street rods, muscle cars, off road trucks or nearly any carbureted vehicle. The IAC parked position at 88 degrees is approximately 80% (plunger is pulled 80% of the way out of the IAC passage. Go to the handle (little square box) for the temperature immediately to the left of the current CTS reading and move it all the way down to zero. One coil (energized by one pair of wires) moves the shaft in. RPM going up and down , miss firing and backfiring. Then let us give you one more hot tip: Subscribe to the Chris's EFI System Pro Mailing List! All Rights Reserved, This error message is only visible to WordPress admins, Dual Sync Distributor, Chevrolet Big Block Tall Deck 565-204BK. I bet you if you bump the idle range to 20°-25° then that will help your CL Comp. By controlling the airflow through the IAC passage this allows the ECU to control the RPM of the engine at idle. Capability Range: Advanced In our example, above, the coolant temperature sensor finds the engine at 88 degrees. Don't forget to reset your IAC park position back to where they were before you started the test. Price Point: $$, EFI Systems based on Holley's world-class Dominator and HP ECU's. When fully extended, it completely blocks air from passing through the IAC passage and into the intake manifold. Capability Range: Advanced In his infrequent missives Chris will let you know things like:. I have a 69 Camaro with a 350 V8 which has an Edelbrock 4 bbl. - Verify Wiring - ECU must be powered and grounded directly at the battery and the battery is fully charged. Second, In addition to wiring or other external connectivity issues, the coils themselves can fail. ), This image shows the IAC passage (triangular opening between throttle barrels) with plunger fully inserted (set at zero.). At this point it would not work correctly again until the IAC was re-zero'd by the ECU. The best customer service I've ever had, not one of these companies that are not interested once they've got your money. Is the stock GM Powerglide transmission compatible with … Capability Range: Moderate In the original article, I mentioned I was not an EFI expert, but after some simple research – and with the help of the Holley tech line – I was able to inflict some simple adjustments to make the Sniper even better for my application.I started by adjusting the fuel prime – which squirts a small amount of fuel into the intake to aid in start-up. $67.37. That would require that the IAC be replaced. The ECU extends the IAC plunger to its limit, and assumes it is fully seated in the IAC passage and then takes it back out to the park position (normally around 50-80%, depending on the temperature of the engine.) Ignition parts - with EFI you need to run resistor plugs and resistor, non-solid core wires. I wished I had known about EFI pro when I started my project 3 yrs ago Chris you put out good information/visuals....will definitely be making my purchases with you from here out......You are very helpful I can only imagine if had purchased my sniper unit from you in the beginning. Let's start by giving a simple introduction to how the IAC works. Very knowledgeable about the products they sell, always happy to talk you through your options and point you in the right direction. Sniper Progressive Secondary Link--A Great Solution for Abrupt Throttle!When folks install their new Sniper 4150, Super Sniper 4150, or Sniper XFlow on their high-horsepower engine, usually there are two reactions. One coil (energized by one pair of wires) moves the shaft in. At times you might find that your idle is not behaving as you expect--too high, too low, or erratic. WOW! Another coil (energized by a second pair of wires) moves the shaft out. Navigate to Home > Tuning > Advanced > Advanced Idle > IAC Startup and click on "IAC Parked". If you get into the practice of hearing all three of these sounds you will know if you have a problem even before you turn the key to crank. 8. Free ground shipping regardless of order size! It is virtually simultaneous with the fuel pump prime. When fully extended, it completely blocks air from passing through the I… Note that you are REALLY going to wish you had that stylus that came with your Sniper to adjust these handles--they are almost impossible to do accurately with your finger. I can't recommend EFI System Pro enough. The purpose of this instruction is not to provide a complete guide to troubleshooting idle conditions. Then do the same thing for the handle immediately to the right of the current CTS reading. It is just as important to know what the IAC does not do. Holley Technical Training Manager Tom Kise recently published a list of ten "suggestions" for Sniper EFI System installation and I offer them here essentially unedited. Bolt-on carburetor style EFI for your classic car or truck. *Possible delays due to Covid-19 click for more information. Three things come to mind. It is reliant on the data acquired by the included wideband oxygen sensor. Holley just brought EFI within range - introducing Sniper EFI! Part# 543-34. Across the board, all of our customers say how impressed they were that it started and ran right out of the box just by following the simple installation instructions.… However, most of the information is directly applicable to Terminator X so we invite those owners to use this as well. It is a good idea to get in the habit of listening to your Sniper EFI System. The ECU initiating the IAC is the first sound you hear when  you key the system on. Find a lower price anywhere and we'll beat it by 5%! (The Sniper in the image is a bit older and Holley is prone to change components from time to time.).

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Sours: https://britishroadsignproject.co.uk/brian-agler-hhfkpnc/416f1c-holley-sniper-efi-iac-problems

Troubleshooting sniper efi

A Handful of Helpful EFI Techniques

By Jeff Smith – Photography by the Author

Bob Dylan once wrote “… the times they are a-changin’.” He probably didn’t have electronic fuel injection in mind when he wrote those words, but it is certainly true that there’s been a rich mixture of changes with aftermarket electronic fuel injection in the last 10 to 15 years. It wasn’t all that long ago that most car guys steered clear of electronic control over fuel and spark but with a tremendous variety of high-quality systems on the market and the opportunities they offer have made believers out of at least a few serious doubters.

But we have to admit that this conversion to electronic control has not been easy. There has also been a smattering of challenges to make these systems operate smoothly. It doesn’t take much effort to find negative comments about every system out there. While it’s easy to blame the manufacturers, our experience with many of these systems is that there are often simple solutions to many of these difficulties. We’re not going to blow smoke in your face and claim that all these systems work flawlessly. That’s just not true.

However, we will stand firm on the belief that many of these systems will operate well and offer respectable returns on the investment as long as certain rules are followed and an effort to undo these difficulties is attempted. In our experience, it’s often simple installation errors or an occasional failed sensor that is to blame. But if you follow the instructions—yes you must read the instructions carefully—likely you can avoid many of the pitfalls that plague those installers who just don’t make the effort to do the job correctly.

One point that must be highlighted is that fuel injection is not a cure-all for an ailing engine. If the engine is not running properly with a carburetor, this could be an indication of either internal engine problems or ignition issues that will not be solved by adding EFI.

As an example, we’ve experienced an off-idle hesitation in a small-block, four-speed Chevelle that continued to plague the car after testing two different EFI systems. The problem turned out to be bad hydraulic roller lifters that easily bled down, causing the hesitation and poor performance. As you might expect, the EFI system did nothing to clear up this issue. The fix was a set of high-quality hydraulic roller lifters that immediately improved performance across the entire engine rpm range from idle to 6,000 rpm. No amount of fuel or spark tuning would have solved this mechanical issue.

We won’t be able to address all the tuning issues with a baker’s dozen collection of tech tips, but what we can do is offer these recommendations for ways to diagnose your particular issue. One way to work through the diagnostics is by eliminating the simplest things first. For example, we had a problem with an aftermarket EFI that was finally diagnosed as a poor electrical ground. The repair literally cost pennies. The point is to try the easiest and least expensive fixes first before you dive into the more complex issues. It’s crushing to find out that an off-idle hesitation is because the car was just low on fuel. It sounds silly but that’s happened—and probably more than once.

Take a walk through these EFI troubleshooting suggestions and perhaps there may be one or two techniques that will apply to your specific issue. Remember that EFI is a basic binary decision-making system. Based on sensor inputs, the computer will only execute what it’s been programmed to do. Our job is to make sure it’s making the right decisions all the time.

Sources

Aeromotive
(913) 647-7300
aeromotiveinc.com

FiTech
(951) 340-2624
fitechefi.com

Granatelli Motorsports
(805) 486-6644
granatellimotorsports.com

Holley
(866) 464-6553
holley.com

OPTIMA Batteries
optimabatteries.com

PerTronix
(909) 599-5955
pertronixbrands.com

 

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Jeff Smith

Sours: https://inthegaragemedia.com/efi-troubleshooting-tuning-tips/
Holley Sniper EFI troubleshooting: Bad ECU??

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