Stock lly hp

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Breaking Point: How Much Can Your Duramax Handle?

How Much Can Your Duramax Handle?

Killing a Duramax

Since we gave the Power Stroke guys a little insight, as to what their powerplants could handle, it’s time to take a look at what pushes the stock hardware of the Duramax mills to the brink. If you’re wondering how much horsepower can a stock Allison 1000 handle? While it’s true that you’ll kill the Allison automatic long before you hurt the Duramax in front of it, we’re assuming all supporting mods have been performed (most notably, a built transmission and lift pump) for the purposes of illustrating what the 6.6L V8’s stock rotating assembly can handle.. So how much boos can a stock Duramax handle? In our experience, you can get away with doubling the power output of each generation of the Duramax, but venturing beyond that has a tendency to bring out the breakage gremlins at an accelerated rate.

Because torque (i.e. cylinder pressure) is the primary killer of rods and pistons, it’s difficult to directly link a horsepower number to each engine’s weak link. However, as a general rule of thumb, a common consensus exists for the horsepower thresholds listed here (and the torque that goes along with those numbers). To be sure, aggressive tuning, poor parts selection, and a careless driver can spell disaster at any power level. And while plenty of Duramax owners have successfully run bigger turbos, upgraded CP3s, and large injectors on top of a stock bottom end, by and large, most enthusiasts don’t get away with doing it for very long. Read on to find out where the danger zone is for your  ‘01-present GM.


The weakest link in the LB7 Duramax’s rotating assembly is its connecting rods. Like all Duramax engines, the rods are made from forged steel and feature a cracked cap design. However, less material exists in the bottom of the beam area when compared to ‘06-‘10 engines. The lack of meat in this critical area helps explain why the rods are prone to bending at lower horsepower and torque levels, as well as why LB7 rods weigh less than the units you’ll find in LBZ and LMM models (1,155 grams vs. 1,173 grams).

Now, in knowing that the LB7 rods are lighter and feature less structure in arguably the most critical area of the beam, add in the fact that this engine featured the highest compression ratio (along with the LLY) ever offered. With a 17.5:1 compression ratio (vs. 16.8:1 on LBZ, LMM, and LML mills), the LB7 and LLY engines naturally see higher peak cylinder pressures (elevated torque levels). Couple that with a weaker connecting rod and you can draw a pretty strong conclusion as to why the LB7 rods fail in the 550 to 600 hp (1,100 to 1,200 lb-ft.) range.

On the contrary, there are always die-hard Duramax owners willing to push the limits and prove everyone wrong. We’ve seen a 150,000-mile, stock bottom-end LB7 equipped with 60-percent over nozzles, stroker CP3, and a 66mm turbo live several years at 700-rwhp. The key? EFI Live tuning that was custom tailored to limit low rpm torque, yet pour on the timing and pulse width up top. It’s important to note here that the truck’s owner knew exactly what he was doing—and that the fun could come to an abrupt halt at any time.

DANGER ZONE: 550 – 600-rwhp


With the LLY Duramax sharing the same connecting rod as the LB7, it’s no surprise that this component is also the weakest link in the second generation of the Duramax. And, like the LB7, compression once again checks in at 17.5:1, meaning higher peak cylinder pressure (i.e. torque) beating down on it. But the LLY introduces one more ingredient to the weak connecting rod recipe.

The LLY is particularly at risk of rod failure because of its use of a variable geometry turbocharger (the LB7 came with a fixed geometry IHI unit). Variable geometry turbos offer quick spool up (response), which equals instant torque. So, with the combination of quick spool up and higher compression already inherently producing elevated cylinder pressures in the LLY, you can imagine how close to the brink the rods are once enthusiasts add fuel and upgrade to an aftermarket VVT charger.

In the case of both the LB7 and LLY engines, rod failure usually isn’t noticed immediately. In fact, it’s not uncommon for someone to drive for hundreds (if not thousands) of miles on a bent rod or two. Depending on how much the rod(s) has bent, a slight drop in compression in that cylinder(s) will be the only way to tell. Many times, a minimal bend won’t even lower compression enough to be noticeable to the average truck owner. Only when the truck begins to hiccup or smoke, or worse, does the owner know a major problem exists. It’s not uncommon to find a slight bend in most (if not all) connecting rods upon teardown of an LLY powered truck churning out 550 to 600-rwhp.

DANGER ZONE: 550 to 600-rwhp


Starting with the ’06 model year GM’s, the weakest link in the bottom end of the LBZ Duramax shifted to the cast-aluminum pistons. With a lower compression ratio than the LB7 and LLY mills (16.8:1 vs. 17.5:1), the LBZ and LMM have lower peak cylinder pressure on their side. In addition, the connecting rods entail roughly 10 percent more cross sectional area than LB7 and LLY rods. The added mass in the lower portion of the beam (where rods tend to bend) makes them more ideal for handling torque. Thanks to these OEM changes, the aftermarket was able to get away with pushing the LBZ and LMM powered trucks to the 650 hp (1,200 to 1,300 lb-ft.) realm before encountering piston failures.

Several theories help explain why the piston is the weak link in LBZ engines. First, poor quality control of the casting process is said to have existed when GM switched to a Korean piston foundry prior to the LBZ engine’s production. It’s been said that inconsistencies were present in the metallurgy of the piston casting, making them prone to cracking. A second theory is the LBZ/LMM piston’s utilization of wrist pin bushings compromises the integrity of the cross sectional strength over the wrist pin area. Essentially, there is not enough meat in the wrist pin area, and 99 percent of all cracks occur along the centerline of the wrist pin. The final theory suggests that inadequate cooling leads to the piston’s demise.

Cracked piston scenarios lead to excessive crankcase pressure (blowby), a miss in the engine, and inordinate amounts of smoke exiting the tailpipe. While the danger zone for an LBZ engine begins in the low 600s to 650 hp, we’ve seen our fair share of stock bottom end trucks making 700, and sometimes a little more. Sled pullers that are only ran hard a couple nights a week will typically last longer than a daily driven street truck, one that hits the dragstrip often, and certainly a truck that’s used to tow.

DANGER ZONE: 650 rwhp


With the same rods and pistons as what you’ll find in the LBZ, the LMM Duramax possesses the same weak link as the ’06-’07 trucks do: the cast-aluminum pistons. The theories as to why these pistons fail remains the same as well, but it doesn’t hurt to add excess stress from dealing with extreme EGT and high mileage fatigue to the picture—all of which can combine to cause a cracked piston (even at stock horsepower and torque levels).

A lot of cracked piston scenarios we come across in LBZ and LMM trucks stem from the owner knowing the risks, yet trying to get the most out of his parts combination without crossing that red line. For instance, knowing that the danger zone was in the neighborhood of 650-700 rwhp and piecing together a setup good for 625 rwhp. The only problem is that that 650-hp number isn’t a line in the sand. As we’ve mentioned, some LBZ and LMM pistons survive 700 or more horsepower while others bite the dust at 600. There is simply no way to know when it will happen.

Ironically enough, a lot of budget Duramax builds (LB7-LMM engines) entail the use of LBZ/LMM rods, but employ LB7/LLY-based pistons. Cut and coated (de-lipped) LB7 pistons were a hot item in the days before Mahle Motorsports and other piston manufacturers offered an aftermarket piston option—and for affordability reasons, they’re still a relatively popular choice. This type of build is typically safe for the 650 to 700-rwhp range, which is as far as a lot of enthusiasts want to go anyway (financially speaking).

DANGER ZONE: 650 rwhp


Now several years after its production run, the verdict is still out to what exactly the LML Duramax HPlimit is. While we haven’t heard or seen a lot of rod or piston failures on stock bottom-end engines yet, it doesn’t mean they’ll handle more power than what the LBZ or LMM’s will. In fact, the pistons are very similar to the LBZ and LMM engines, which means the 650hp range may just put you on the carnage radar.

One edge the LML piston might have over the LBZ and LMM versions is that its design eliminates wrist pin bushings. While GM claims it did this to achieve a lighter weight rotating assembly (along with a lighter crank and lighter connecting rods), it added strength back into this area of the piston. We’ve seen several 700-rwhp LML’s sporting the stock bottom end, a few of which were running compound turbo arrangements. The key to these trucks living at this point has been torque limitation at low rpm via spot-on EFI Live tuning. DW

DANGER ZONE: 650 to 700-rwhp

Danville Performance

EFI Live

General Motors

SoCal Diesel


  1. As the article was to showcase how far owners could push the bottom ends of their stock duramax and power-strokes before they add a compound turbo system to complement the factory VVT. Not long afterwards after a pull they notice the engine ticking along with white smoke at idle even when the engine was at operating temperature as they knew they bent several connecting rods as after a tear down they cracked several pistons. Owners could be on the verge of having to invest in a new block after an overbore could put the engine on the edge of what the spacing between cylinder bores is deemed allowable.

    1. As the article on how far owners of power-stroke and duramax could push their bottom ends as those in the aftermarket would find out what it takes to send the mighty Cummins over the edge.


Duramax History, Lesson 2: LLY

Midway through the 2004 model year, GM released the second-generation Duramax, RPO code LLY. Although much of the LLY’s internals match what you’ll find in the LB7, this version of the 6.6L V8 brought an improved injector design, variable geometry turbocharging and cleaner emissions to the table. On early versions of the LLY (’04.5-’05.5 model year GM trucks), horsepower climbed by 10 to 310hp while peak torque remained at 520 lb-ft—but became available 200 rpm sooner in the power band (1,600 rpm vs. 1,800 rpm on the LB7). Later model LLY mills (‘06), which arguably had more in common with the LBZ that followed the LLY, packed 605 lb-ft of torque.

However, despite its improvements and added technology over the LB7 the LLY wasn’t without its own shortcomings. Issues with overheating, brought about from various different components, proved to be its biggest drawback, often contributing to higher operating temps and sometimes even blown head gaskets. While previous injector issues were laid to rest with the LLY, the common-rail injection system still had a few minor quirks, along with the injection system still being void of a factory lift pump. But even though it tends to be viewed as the least desirable in the Duramax lineage, the LLY was a very solid engine. For all the dirt on this briefly-produced and often-overlooked oil-burner, keep scrolling.

Make sure to check back in for Part Three, as we’ll be exploring one of the most coveted Duramax engines ever built: the LBZ.

LLY Hard Facts

Production2004.5 to early 2006HeadsCast-aluminum with six 14mm diameter head bolts per cylinder (with sharing)
Design90-degree V8ValvetrainOHV, four valves per cylinder, single cam
Bore4.06 inchesInjection SystemBosch high-pressure common-rail, direct injection
Stroke3.90 inchesInjectorsBosch solenoid (outside valve cover)
Displacement6.6L (403 ci)Injection pumpBosch CP3
Compression Ratio17.5:1TurbochargerGarrett GT3788VA
BlockDeep Skirt, cast Iron (gray iron alloy)IntercoolerAir-to-air
RodsForged-steel, fractured (cracked) capHorsepower310hp @ 3000 rpm
PistonsCast-aluminumTorque520 lb-ft @ 1600 rpm (early '06: 605 lb-ft @ 1600 rpm)

Boiling Over

The commanding issue most LLY owners worry about is this engine’s tendency to overheat, especially when towing. In reality, not all trucks overheat, but it’s a common enough problem that it gets a considerable amount of negative attention. Several factors contribute to this engine inherently running warmer than its LB7 predecessor (or the engines that followed it), one of which is the fact that LLY-powered GMs came equipped with the smallest radiator ever offered in front of a Duramax (yet had an additional component to cool it in the form of the EGR cooler). While the employment of a radiator with less surface area and lower coolant capacity certainly didn’t help the LLY, the overheating hysteria is often exacerbated by owners who experience fan clutch failure, water pump failure or a debris-packed cooling stack blocking airflow, but blame their 240-degree water temp on the radiator.

Turbo Inlet Manifold

Another key contributor to the LLY’s running warm is the factory turbo inlet manifold, or turbo mouthpiece as some folks know it. Highly restrictive, the turbo inlet manifold creates a choke-point right before boost enters the compressor side of the turbocharger. This makes the turbo work harder to produce boost, which in turn leads to hotter intake air and exhaust gas temperatures, and often hampers spool up, fuel economy and overall power. Replacing this piece with a freer-flowing aftermarket turbo mouthpiece is one of the most affordable and effective ways to help your LLY run cooler.

More Airflow Restriction

Although it isn’t near the choke-point the turbo inlet manifold is, the factory two-piece intake Y-bridge is also known as a considerable restriction on all Duramax engines. Larger diameter aftermarket Y-bridges (a WCFab kit is pictured above) abound in the diesel aftermarket, which not only improve airflow into the heads, lower intake and exhaust gas temps, but also rule out the two-piece component’s propensity to blow apart under high boost pressure.

Variable Geometry Turbo

Meeting emissions standards directly correlates to good drivability—and a quicker-spooling turbocharger means less particulate matter pollutants. To make the engine as responsive as possible throughout the entire rpm range, variable geometry turbo technology debuted on the LLY in the form of the Garrett GT3788VA VVT. With precise electric control of the movable vanes that direct exhaust flow across the turbine wheel, optimum performance is achieved at virtually any engine speed. The result is superb drivability in any situation and the faster spoolup provided by the GT3788VA VVT provided for peak torque to check in sooner (at just 1,600 rpm).

Largest Turbo

One benefit for horsepower junkies is that the LLY made use of the largest turbo ever offered on any Duramax engine. Not only was its 62mm, 11-blade compressor wheel inducer the biggest, but the height of its exhaust vanes were the tallest at 15mm (vs. 11.2mm on the LML engine available from ’11-‘16). This translates into the LLY possessing the highest flowing factory turbocharger. With sound aftermarket tuning, it’s a cinch to clear 500rwhp with an LLY-powered Chevy or GMC HD.

Performance-Friendly Turbo Contributes to Blown Head Gaskets

Unfortunately, being the biggest doesn’t always mean it’s the best—especially in the case of the LLY. With a bigger compressor wheel to turn yet more restriction in front of it (in the form of the aforementioned turbo inlet manifold), the variable vanes in the turbo that are essentially used to drive the compressor wheel have to work harder. This means more drive pressure and heat is produced, which not only leads to higher coolant temps, but over time takes its toll on the LLY’s head gaskets.

Emissions System

Although exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) began to infiltrate the Duramax on California model LB7s, the LLY was 50-state legal right out of the box. Its EGR system consisted of an EGR valve to introduce exhaust gases back into the intake stream and an EGR cooler in the valley. Downwind of the turbocharger, a catalytic converter was employed as well. Neither the EGR valve, cooler or cat on the LLYs are notorious for failure (such as the 6.0L Power Stroke from the same era), but it does happen on higher mileage engines.

Same Rods, Same Tolerance for Pain

The same forged-steel, cracked cap connecting rods found in the LB7 were repurposed in the LLY. Of the first five generations of the Duramax (LB7, LLY, LBZ, LMM and LML), the LB7/LLY rod is the second lightest ever used. At 1,155 grams apiece, only the rods used in the LML (’11-‘16) were lighter. However, just like the LB7, the rods are on borrowed time at any point beyond 600rwhp. A relatively high compression ratio when compared to later Duramax mills (17.5:1 vs. 16.8:1) and its use of a quick-lighting, low-rpm torque-producing variable geometry turbo makes the LLY rods slightly more susceptible to bending than the LB7’s.

Redesigned Injectors           

Seeking to solve the widespread and burdensome injector issues that plagued the LB7—the one major blemish on the original Duramax’s otherwise stellar platform—GM obtained newly designed, externally serviceable injectors from Bosch and redesigned its cylinder heads to accommodate them. The results were exactly what GM wanted and needed: no more leaking injectors, cracked injector bodies or rampant warranty claims. While fuel quality issues, poor fuel lubrication and air infiltrating the fuel system (thanks to the LLY’s lack of a factory lift pump) can lead to injector issues as early as 125,000 miles, it’s a far cry from the frequent and catastrophic injector issues that haunted the LB7. Most well-maintained LLY injectors last between 150,000 to 200,000 miles.

Injector Harness Chafing

High mileage and age often bring about inevitable electrical problems on any modern diesel. After years of use and hundreds of thousands of miles, the LLY’s injector harnesses are known to wear through due to vibration and throw injector output circuit DTCs. Short-to-ground scenarios are common when this happens, but it can also result from the injector output circuit seeing high resistance. If the problem area can be tracked down, it can usually be repaired without replacing the entire injector harness.

‘Ol Reliable

For good reason, the injectors in the LLY are completely different from the LB7, but GM decided to leave the CP3 virtually unchanged between the two engines. After all, Bosch designed this injection pump for engines much larger than the Duramax and that were expected to last well beyond 500,000 miles. Similar to the LB7 pump, a suction valve is integrated to compensate for the absence of a lift-pump. Also like the LB7 pump, a fuel pressure regulator replacement is in store once in a while, but the CP3 itself is rock-solid.


This applies almost exclusively to enthusiasts who’ve tapped into the hidden potential of the LLY via aftermarket tuning. The factory fuel pressure relief valve (FPRV) is a spring-loaded plug located at the back of the driver side fuel rail that’s designed to protect the rail in the event of an over-pressure situation. But once the FPRV spring has allowed fuel to be discharged, it becomes weaker and weaker and the engine’s peak obtainable rail pressure drops lower and lower (i.e. your truck slowly makes less and less power). The issue can easily be solved by installing an aftermarket race valve or by shimming the factory FPRV spring to raise its relief pressure back to (or above) stock pressure. A $10 shim kit from Merchant Automotive is shown above.

Missed the first lesson? See the history of the LB7.

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Duramax Timeline

Model Year





235 hp @ 2,700 rpm

500 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

LB7 introduced


235 hp @ 2,700 rpm

500 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


235 hp @ 2,700 rpm

500 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


LB7: 300 hp @ 3,100 rpm
LLY: 310 hp @ 3,000 rpm

LB7: 520 lb-ft @ 1,800 rpm
LLY: 520 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

The LLY was introduced in 2004 and replaced the LB7 completely mid-year


310 hp @ 3,000 rpm

520 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


LLY: 310 hp @ 3,000 rpm
LBZ: 360 hp @ 3,200 rpm

LLY: 605 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm
LBZ: 650 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

The LBZ was introduced in 2006 and eventually replaced the LLY by 2007. The 2006 LLY featured many changes to boost torque.


LBZ: 360 hp @ 3,200 rpm
LMM: 365 hp @ 3,100 rpm

LBZ: 650 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm
LMM: 660 lb-ft @ 1,800 rpm

The LMM was introduced mid-year 2007 and replaced the LBZ


365 hp @ 3,100 rpm

660 lb-ft @ 1,800 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


365 hp @ 3,100 rpm

660 lb-ft @ 1,800 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


365 hp @ 3,100 rpm

660 lb-ft @ 1,800 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


397 hp @ 3,000 rpm

765 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

Duramax LML replaces LMM


397 hp @ 3,000 rpm

765 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


397 hp @ 3,000 rpm

765 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


397 hp @ 3,000 rpm

765 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


397 hp @ 3,000 rpm

765 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


397 hp @ 3,000 rpm

765 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


445 hp @ 2,800 rpm

910 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

Duramax L5P replaces LML for 2017 model year


445 hp @ 2,800 rpm

910 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


445 hp @ 2,800 rpm

910 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes


445 hp @ 2,800 rpm

910 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

N/A - no significant platform changes

2005 LLY Duramax stock vs performance +150 hp tune

How much HP can a stock Duramax handle?

This might explain why more LML powered trucks are surviving the 650 to 700-rwhp range on stock internals. In case you’re wondering, the verdict is still out on how much horsepower and torque the stock bottom ends will handle on the ’11-newer LML mills.

How much horsepower does a 2002 Duramax have?

Duramax Horsepower & Torque by Model Year

Model YearHorsepowerTorque
2001235 hp @ 2,700 rpm500 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm
2002235 hp @ 2,700 rpm500 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm
2003235 hp @ 2,700 rpm500 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm
2004LB7: 300 hp @ 3,100 rpm LLY: 310 hp @ 3,000 rpmLB7: 520 lb-ft @ 1,800 rpm LLY: 520 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

How much horsepower does a stock 6.6 Duramax have?

445 horsepower

How much horsepower does a stock LB7 have?

6.6L Duramax LB7 Specs

Engine:6.6L Duramax LB7, 90 degree V-8 diesel
Idle Speed:~ 680 rpm
Max Engine Speed:3,250 rpm (rev limiter)
Peak Horsepower:• 235 hp @ 2,700 rpm (2001 model year) • 300 hp @ 3,100 rpm (2004 model year)
Peak Torque:• 500 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm (2001 model year) • 520 lb-ft @ 1,800 rpm (2004 model year)

How much horsepower can a stock Allison 1000 handle?

As you’ve probably deduced up to this point, the stock Allison will handle roughly 350 to 400-rwhp in five-speed form and 425 to 450-rwhp in six-speed trim. However, if you push things past that point the clutches will eventually slip and bring on the Allison’s notorious “limp mode” condition (i.e. limp home mode).

Is LMM or LML better?

LML is arguably a better engine but there are issues with DEF on all makes; Ford, Ram and GM. LMM emission controls have proved to be as reliable as any. I’d go with the newer truck but it’s your decision.

What is the best year of Duramax to buy?

The 2001 – 2004 model years are great on fuel, have the least emissions components, and shouldn’t give you any problems if the injectors were replaced under warranty. Avoid the 2007.5 – 2010 model year trucks if you are concerned with fuel economy.

How many miles will a LML Duramax last?

GM has given the engine a 95% rating at 200,000 miles, meaning 95% of all engines should reach 200,000 miles of service, based on durability and wear.

What is high mileage for a Duramax?

A poorly-maintained engine can quickly fall into disrepair before it even reaches the 100,000-mile mark while a well-maintained Duramax pickup truck should last 400,000 or even 500,000 miles.

What year Duramax has injector problems?

What year Duramax has injector problems? The LB7 Duramax built from 2001 – 2004.5 is known for injector failure. The good news is the replacement injectors you purchase from us incorporate several updates to help prevent repeat failures.

How long do Duramax injectors last?

Most well-maintained LLY injectors last between 150,000 to 200,000 miles.

How long do injectors last on a 6.6 Duramax?

I’ve seen injectors go out at 70,000 or 250,000.

How often do Duramax injectors go bad?

Yes, they all will fail. Its just some fail more often than others. Some go for 250K miles on the origanals where others can’t get 100K. There is no ryme or reason to it.

How much do injectors cost for a Duramax?

The total cost to have a mechanic replace 8 injectors on an LLY Duramax can range from $3500 – $4500 CAD, depending on what other work is performed at the same time. The good news is LLY injectors are located outside the valve covers so the task is considerably easier and cheaper than on prior LB7 models.

Is the 6.6 Duramax a good engine?

The 6.6L Duramax has been in production since 2001 and has proved, on a large scale, to be a relatively reliable and durable platform. However, like any engine (or any complex mechanism for that matter), the Duramax engine and Allison 1000 transmission have some common problems inherent to their design.

How do I know if my Duramax injectors are bad?

There is a multitude of symptoms your truck will experience if the injectors are going bad. One of the first signs we see are excessive smoke/haze. You will notice your truck billowing out a little more smoke than usual or hazing at idle. Another issue you may notice is high EGTs.


Hp stock lly

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Can you. Go for a walk Olezhek. There is no need to sit at home. I want to sit with a guy on Skype, added the sister. I dont want to go to the kitchen with a laptop and.

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